The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 5

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COAGULOPATH
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 5

Post: # 12027Post COAGULOPATH »

Almost hatefully talented.

If anyone's interested in more animation in the same style, I'd recommend the Hungarian film Fehérlófia (Son of the White Mare) by Marcello Jankovics. It's possibly where Le Cain would have ended up if he'd become a director, and had really pushed the phantasmagoric side of his illustrations.

I wonder if the design of the Golden City was based on the real-life Mount Saint Michel. It has the same "impossible heap of buildings" quality.

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I spent a lot of time restoring the only publicly available video source to be told that it's "really shit" but okay. You can compare my first upload to my second. It is incomplete.
Your restoration looks great. It'd be frustrating if a high-quality source copy made your work redundant, but I guess that's a good problem for a restorationist to have.

I'm assuming the negatives have the missing ending?
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Garrett Gilchrist
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 5

Post: # 12028Post Garrett Gilchrist »

Hopefully the complete BFI 35mm restoration will be put online at some point.

https://emeraldtoneanimation.weebly.com ... devil.html

I acquired and cleaned up a very poor quality VHS so that people could see the film in some form -- albeit without its original ending. I'd spotted someone on Youtube who had posted an HBO bumper from an airing of the short, and asked them for a full transfer.

Hans Bacher had a complete copy at some point but it's also not on the internet (and wasn't readily available to transfer properly).
DaveHolmes
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 5

Post: # 12034Post DaveHolmes »

eBay sighting -

https://www.ebay.com/str/chimerapublishing?_sop=10

Someone scanned all the photo negatives from Milton Gray's interview with Richard for the Fall 1978 issue of Funnyworld and is selling them as black and white photographs on eBay, including a bunch of photos/artwork that weren't used in the article and I've never seen before

The original interview - https://we.tl/t-gcg3ssKxWu

Zip file with all the scans from eBay (including the writer's notes) - https://we.tl/t-TZbSC1QEmz

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Garrett Gilchrist
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 5

Post: # 12035Post Garrett Gilchrist »

Very interesting -- I wouldn't mind better scans of those in particular. Although I can live with these web-sized versions.

I am tempted to bid but frankly my income does not cover it right now.

I'm guessing this "Garden of Eden" type storyboard is also part of the collection:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/276007357467?h ... SwQ8hk4lGm

There is a rough drawing on the wall in that photo of Richard which could be a snake from the same project.
DaveHolmes
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 5

Post: # 12037Post DaveHolmes »

I don't have the full Funnyworld issue anymore, but it's possible the other photos are from different articles in the same issue (maybe a layout editor kept them) - I just zipped everything relevant to Williams

Some of the scans have Jerry Beck's address on the back of them, so I'm guessing he used to loan the publication material from his collection to scan

Lots of fun stuff!
OldBenKenobi
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 5

Post: # 12039Post OldBenKenobi »

Garrett Gilchrist wrote: Mon Aug 21, 2023 2:14 am I spent a lot of time restoring the only publicly available video source to be told that it's "really shit" but okay. You can compare my first upload to my second. It is incomplete.
Sorry, that's not what I meant, and I should have realised it looked like that—I meant the video source was shit. Similar to how, for instance, a lot of shots for my Little Shop of Horrors restoration are sourced from tapes that look really shit; I've tried to get the best out of them, and in general I'm pretty proud of the work I've put in, but I would still refer to the source tapes as being really shit (and the transfers of some of this material were also quite bad, in the specific case of the Little Shop tapes). Same applies here; the part you had no control over was really shit. That's what I meant, and I should have been clearer. My apologies.

I remember arguing with you about your restoration of it a while ago because I was picky about the audio noise reduction, and I think I was unfairly hard on you at that time, and I do apologise for that and for my careless phrasing regarding my thoughts on the video source here, but please don't misunderstand, I appreciate the work you put in, and I am sorry for my careless phrasing and prior pickiness.
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Garrett Gilchrist
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 5

Post: # 12048Post Garrett Gilchrist »

Richard Williams interview in "The Image / Graphic Arts Photography" Issue 12 1973 (although the interview sounds like it was conducted in 1972). Thanks to John Kratovil. Contains full storyboard for the Nasrudin sequence "Beauty and the Beast."

https://www.facebook.com/groups/thiefan ... 0604260517

When Williams won an Oscar for A Christmas Carol in 1972, he dropped the Nasrudin element and rebooted the film as The Thief and the Cobbler -- although Richard was secretly still using the old storyboards until 1990.

Allegedly the Shah brothers were both demanding a large cut of the profits of the eventual Nasrudin film -- think 50% or something equally impossible -- and allegedly Omar was embezzling funds from the animation studio -- and allegedly death threats were sent anonymously to the Williams Studio in letters cut out from magazines.

The Turkish animators who worked on the film, later on, felt it was nonsense that the Shah family should want copyright over the character of Nasrudin, who in Turkey is considered public domain in the same fashion as Santa Claus.

Tahsin Ozgur: "I confirm that bit about the "Turkish animators" (myself and Şahin Ersöz). Nasreddin (as we call him) is such an integral part of Turkish folklore that it is incredible anyone could claim copyright to it. What is more, there are animated Turkish versions of the character that no one has ever challenged."

Carl Gover: "It wasn't the character of Nasrudin that was the issue - but the so-called unique story translations done by Idries Shah."

Tahsin Ozgur: "That I could understand, but Richard Williams overhauled the story anyway; there was no real reason to throw the title character out!"

The Majestic Fool script, AKA the Nasrudin script, is often identical to the books Williams illustrated for Idries Shah. It's episodic and overcomplicated. The simplified and elegant nature of the final script (by Margaret French, existing in its final form by 1980) is because they threw out much of the original script and focused on the design that had been done -- or the most interesting parts of it. It's nearly a "best parts" version.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOsJ297 ... veOfficial
DaveHolmes
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 5

Post: # 12049Post DaveHolmes »

Garrett Gilchrist wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:08 am Richard Williams interview in "The Image / Graphic Arts Photography" Issue 12 1973 (although the interview sounds like it was conducted in 1972). Thanks to John Kratovil. Contains full storyboard for the Nasrudin sequence "Beauty and the Beast."

https://www.facebook.com/groups/thiefan ... 0604260517
"However it was only preparation for Nasruddin and if that is a success he has another feature planned: Lateef The Thief and the Magic Horse."

That's the only time I can recall Richard referring to both films as separate projects - unless he was planning a spin-off with the Thief character prior to Nasruddin falling apart

Richard's unveiling of the Golden City title/concept didn't happen until late 1973, so this interview dating to late 1972 or early 1973 checks out
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Garrett Gilchrist
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 5

Post: # 12050Post Garrett Gilchrist »

I've also never heard the name "Lateef the Thief" before. I assume this is the same Thief from this project.

Nasrudin-era boards refer to him as "Abdul Salaam," a Muslim name.
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Garrett Gilchrist
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 5

Post: # 12051Post Garrett Gilchrist »

Here is someone's edit of the Schwäbisch-Hall fox over the years. Some Williams.
https://youtu.be/TNhv2IyodjY

Other examples of the character (Bausparfuchs):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLwz6_mI6eQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QNzOECgB-E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeLlyDp ... ITMASCHINE

CARL GOVER: "The [transforming] guy in the attic TV commercial (from 1980) was the first one that the studio did - and I produced. Dick did much of the animation himself but most subsequent commercials were animated by Roy Jackson (sadly no longer with us)."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qzu1P-IHUXc
Mario Cavallo says this is one of his. Oscar Grillo thinks it was done at Richard Williams Animation.
MARIO CAVALLO: "I'm pretty sure [this] was one of mine but I can't remember if it was done at RWA, or as a freelance (most likely), or later at Pizazz. It was a very long time ago!"
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