Through Time & Space: The Doctor Who Thread

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Re: Through Time & Space: The Doctor Who Thread

Postby Garrett Gilchrist » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:32 pm

I agree with much of what you've said, though I wouldn't single out Delta in particular.

(And "last Ainley appearance," eh?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoJ_m5pH0-o

The creature rots from the head and I think you can put down a lot of these bad decisions to JNT personally. A bizarre period from start to finish, though still containing a lot of good and nostalgic Who.
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Re: Through Time & Space: The Doctor Who Thread

Postby SirQuacky » Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:26 am

I hear you, I still despise Delta but sometimes I think I do get a little too harsh on certain serials, I tried during the entire marathon to approach each serial as if I'd never seen it before but that's an uphill battle, it's not always easy, I thought when I got to The Horns Of Nimon it'd be a so-bad-it's-good laugh riot like I've heard it is, but watching that Adams season in order completely changed my attitude towards it!*
I agree completely that JNT was cause for many problems in 80's Doctor Who, but for every terrible idea he had, he had one other that was marketing buzz that kept the show from cancellation. He wanted to leave and pursue other projects by the time of the hiatus, but the ultimatum he kept receiving from the higher-ups at the BBC was: The moment you leave we're cancelling Doctor Who, no one wants to take over that failing sci-fi nonsense. Even his personal firing of Colin Baker came at the expense of him being promised by the BBC that if he did so he could leave the series and there would be a guaranteed successor to take his place as producer, but only after he fired Colin did he find out it was a plain old lie to get both him and Colin out so the show could be swiftly cancelled. Rather than get some peace of mind he stayed with Doctor Who until they finally pulled the plug in 1989. He may be responsible for the quality decreasing in many areas, but I'll give him some respect for risking his sanity and his career simply to keep Doctor Who on the air.

I've seen that Destiny game footage, cheesy but fun stuff, and Ainsley is just that: cheesy and fun. He truly loved being The Master.
I should've been specific though, I meant his last canon TV appearance was Survival, not overall though. But I can assume you knew that. ;D



* = Thoughts on Williams/Adams' Season 17: "Destiny Of The Daleks" has a confused script and decent costumes (barring last-minute Davros). "City Of Death" is a dialogue classic but has a bit of Monty Python-fatigue in the quotability department, "The Creature From The Pit" surprisingly blew me away with a hilariously tight script and actors clearly "getting it", the only letdown is the creature prop which is surprisingly shoddy, which I can forgive when the actors in the majority of it are giving it their all, Christopher Barry proves his directorial worth yet again, I was having a ball and laughing with it and not at it, truly wonderful. "Nightmare Of Eden" is a passable, but overlit, PSA story that just about works. And The Horns Of Nimon wasn't funny bad, just had really obvious production problems, and a decent maze sequence in it's the third episode. It was just kind of goofy, but not to the point where I was laughing out loud. And I haven't seen the new 2017 Shada yet, so I'll save my thoughts on that till I can get around to that.
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Re: Through Time & Space: The Doctor Who Thread

Postby Garrett Gilchrist » Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:48 am

Creature From the Pit can't get past THAT creature, and it's full-tilt "The Tom Baker Show," but it's got one of the best villains of the period and would be well regarded if not for some production issues -- true of a lot of Who!

With the current Twitch marathon I find I get sucked back in to the show regardless of the era, but lose my stamina to do it all five days in a week.
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Re: Through Time & Space: The Doctor Who Thread

Postby SirQuacky » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:04 am

That's probably why Creature From The Pit has that problem, the makeup, costumes, and set design all feel right. The villain Lady Adrasta is played very nicely by Myra Frances, an intense performance mixed with memorable makeup. Adams' script editing is all over it. It's such a shame the one thing the production couldn't get right was a giant blob creature! It sticks out like a big green sore thumb when set against all that competent work.
Maybe I'm a little too lenient on a pro-con balance, but when the only thing about those four episodes I can say are a con is the creature prop, despite how important the creature is to the story, it's a comedy script about how the all actors play off of it and they do it wonderfully. I don't know, when the show is making me genuinely laugh along with it, I can bare with a bad prop for a couple hours.
I can forgive that and get into the story far more easily than than a serial like Frontios where the actors and the audience are supposed to take the ridiculous looking Tractators completely seriously, I can still suspend my disbelief and play along, but it's such a dour serial it's not that enjoyable to do so.

I just did five or six episodes per day with my personal marathon, the 60's seasons definitely weren't intended to be seen in such a format so I just watched a handful per day, ending off regardless of whether I wanted to or not, tried to emulate the old weekly-waiting on a smaller daily basis. By the time I got to the Tom seasons, it just made more sense to go serial by serial. If I remember correctly I had finished the marathon (including the new series) around the time Asylum Of The Daleks aired* and from that point on continued to watch the series in the same vein, making notes on flow and whatnot, also being a little more critical of stuff that didn't work; and boy-oh-boy did some things not work in the seasons after the point!**

* = I remember really liking Asylum, but at the time I didn't realize it was just another in Moffat's endless "Let's Make Death Meaningless!" themed stories, a competent episode on is own with a pretty good twist, but when put in context: ugh.

** = My definition of a Skippable episode is: "Just plain ridiculous even in Whoverse terms. No important context/continuity. Missing it will not affect later episodes." I've only found four classic series serials to mostly fit that definition, but six in the new series that easily fit it.
It's a tough grade though as even if I don't like a serial, if it contains some kind of continuity information that's needed for later on I automatically have to give it my lowest rating above that which is 1: ONCE with goes like: "Weak story, but something about it is worth at least one viewing, usually for continuity."
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Re: Through Time & Space: The Doctor Who Thread

Postby SirQuacky » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:08 am

Oh yeah, I probably should share that too, my 0-5 scale on overall serial quality:

5: ESSENTIAL
— A story you don’t want to miss AND / OR is important to understanding the character of The Doctor.
4: FANTASTIC
— Just a really good story in context, message, or overall. Entertaining Every Time!
3: COOL
— Neat story, worth a watch every now and again. Should contain a couple outstanding scenes.
2: GOOD
— Not neat, but not weak; a general story. Worth a watch in context and/or once in a long while.
1: ONCE
— Weak story, but something about it is worth at least one viewing, usually for continuity.
0: SKIPPABLE
— Just plain ridiculous even in Whoverse terms. No important context/continuity. Missing it will not affect later episodes.

These shift around a little, but I've got a rating for every aired serial at this point, and put all those lovely numbers together to create a big season-by-season averages graph.
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Re: Through Time & Space: The Doctor Who Thread

Postby SirQuacky » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:15 am

Also, in terms of rating complete seasons/series, I've shifted the new series' Christmas specials to the end of series rather than beginning them.
Storywise RTD is clearly using them to wrap up the preceding season, so it makes no sense to have them start the next one, especially when each new arc in the RTD era is denoted by simply opening with the title sequence and no teaser. Same thing with the Moffat specials, though it does get a little more complicated due to The Moff making more Christmas specials than full seasons/series but it's still listable.
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Re: Through Time & Space: The Doctor Who Thread

Postby SirQuacky » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:53 am

If I had the matte skill and the time to do so, I'd love to see if it'd be possible to colour correct Sixie's outfit along the lines of this: https://www.drwho.de/forum/index.php/Attachment/5451-sixth-doctor-black-coat-jpg/

It'd most likely be an improbable nightmare to do, not even for a single episode but just for a single shot; though if it worked it'd be so SO wonderful to watch!
I love the rainbow coat, but I can't help it: I'm a bigger sucker for "what could have been."
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Re: Through Time & Space: The Doctor Who Thread

Postby Garrett Gilchrist » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:13 pm

A lot of people do the coat as blue, which is easier. Changing the brightness would really stick out and have to be done carefully. Both are difficult and would involve the same process of rotoscoping his coat manually (every two or four frames?), although chromakeying the colors of the coat may also be possible, depending on the shot.

This is something I've done myself on various videos of my own.

It's easier to change color than luminance because our brains don't expect perfect clarity with no errors on color -- and many video codecs rely on this, using a lower quality color signal, while having the luminance be full quality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chh5Rvszzws
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Re: Through Time & Space: The Doctor Who Thread

Postby Garrett Gilchrist » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:24 pm

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Re: Through Time & Space: The Doctor Who Thread

Postby SirQuacky » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:06 pm

Lovely work! You're absolutely right, changing colour definitely works better, there'd have to be a equivalent scale (I don't know the term but like a VCA only for visuals) if any sort of brightness tampering were done to keep the change consistent. Personally, I'd love to keep his ties untouched while maybe muting the colours of the coat slightly. If I ever try my hand at such a thing, I'd love to do the very last interior TARDIS shot of Twin Dilemma.
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