The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 4

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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 4

Postby Nailwraps » Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:37 am

Being that it was a 35mm print, how did it look?
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 4

Postby Garrett Gilchrist » Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:12 pm

As a digital transfer of a 35mm dupe workprint, it was sharp and clear but didn't look good compared to a normal 35mm print. There was a good amount of detail lost in the highlights and lowlights, so any dark scenes were very grainy and lacking detail, like the Thief after surviving his "hands" getting chopped off, which was all digital noise, or The Thief entering the Cobbler's shop. We've dealt with the exact same issues while transferring what 35mm workprint footage we've found, and the problems were comparable here.

The entire war machine sequence suffered from lost lowlight detail, meaning the One Eye soldiers themselves lacked detail and were mostly black. The workprint is known for having a warm yellow tint but it looked a little too green instead, and a little bright, I think - more typical of a modern digital transfer. The opening scenes of The Thief and the Cobbler were disappointing in this respect. This workprint is also more damaged than the slightly earlier one we've all seen on VHS.

The transfer was done intelligently and at times the picture looked very good, like when The Thief was flying or other scenes that aren't too bright or too dark on the film print. There's only so much you can do. A full-quality 35mm restoration would really require a transfer of The Princess and the Cobbler or Arabian Knight, or some other full-quality negative-cut source of footage.

In short, it's full-quality 35mm film transferred to digital, but it is a workprint rather than a negative cut, copied several times over, and it's contrasty enough that detail is lost in the highs and lows. A 35mm presentation of the "finished" versions of the film would be prettier. But it's a perfectly acceptable archive presentation of the film from 35mm. It's similar to the 35mm material used for the Recobbled Cut Mark 4, before I restored it.
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 4

Postby PAW » Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:40 pm

Was the shot of Roofless shouting “Charge!” and slamming the book shut still in storyboards?
Garrett Gilchrist wrote: It was a slightly different edit in a few places; the dying soldier battlefield scene had been shortened for a start

Was this cut the same way as in the Keramidas cut, or was it longer?
and some scenes were apparently in the process of being retimed since you'd often see blank screen for a few frames.

What scenes did this happen in? Was this where frames had been cut and the audio track hadn’t been cut yet, or was it blank space to expand the scenes into?
The different or missing audio may have been intentional at the time but it was pretty odd - Nanny's line "Giant bird! Giant bird!" was absent for example, as was the music during the big pullback from Zigzag's eye through the One Eye camp - replaced with simple drumming. The Brigands dialogue was also absent during the shot of The Thief retrieving a new cloak from the trash. There was a line of blue marker over some shots for unknown editing reasons; the scene of The Thief in Yum Yum's bedroom was rife with it.

It’s interesting how the editing and mixing in the VHS workprint seems so polished, yet this slightly later version sounds less so. Presumably because the former was transferred to VHS when it reached a stage where Dick was happy about showing it, whereas the later was frozen by being hastily duped when the production was shut down, so it was halfway though having editorial changes made to it.
What format would the audio track to the workprint have been in when it was being edited?
A full-quality 35mm restoration would really require a transfer of The Princess and the Cobbler or Arabian Knight, or some other full-quality negative-cut source of footage.

What other negative-cut source would exist? And of course you'd have to try to find the negative trims, B-rolls, etc. for all the stuff Calvert cut.
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 4

Postby DaveHolmes » Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:13 pm

The Calvert-era animation couldn't be used for a restoration anyway without legal wrangling - it has an entirely different set of animators/editors/producers who would need proper credit.

The best idea would be to donate/lend whatever reels/storyboards/pencil tests are available to a team working on a Blu Ray restoration. But there's no guarantee that ever happens.

I like Dick's idea of no credits at the beginning or end of the film.
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 4

Postby Garrett Gilchrist » Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:25 pm

"Charge" was definitely storyboards. Too many scenes had "blank" leader frames in them; I didn't keep track of that. Original audio would have been on magnetic tape.

Nancy Denney-Phelps, Sprockets Animation, writes about the KLIK! Amsterdam animation festival:
http://sprockets.animationblogspot.com/ ... animation/
I was very curious to see Persistence of Vision and The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut which followed it. I’m sure that everyone knows the tragic tale of three time Oscar winner Richard Williams’ legendary The Thief and the Cobbler which has become known as the greatest animated film never made. Film maker Kevin Schreck has collected rare archival footage, interviews with animators and artists who worked with Williams, and pieces of animation that were completed to tell the heart breaking story of this ill-fated project. It was particularly fascinating to see the footage of such legends Roy Naisbitt, Art Babbitt and Ken Harris along will Williams himself at work on the film. I am very glad that I was able to see this fascinating slice of film history which should be a must see for any animation fan.

I wasn’t sure how I was going to enjoy The Thief and Cobbler: Recobbled Cut, but I was completely enthralled by the restoration of this unfinished masterpiece. Even though the difference between the beautiful, original work and the recreated sequences is very evident, Garret Gilchrist has cut together many of the old existing scenes with newly created footage to bring the film closer to its original form. Gilchrist, a lifelong Richard Williams fan, has restored the entire film frame by frame in Photoshop, After Effects, Final Cut Pro, and other programs to recreate scenes that were never animated. He also removed dirt and splices. Garret says that he did not undertake this project for any financial gain but as a labor of love, and when word got out about his project animators who had worked on the film came forward with rare original art work that they had saved. Don’t expect to see Williams’ masterpiece as he intended it to look, but it is definitely worth it to see the beautiful original footage.



Frank Svengsouk ‏@Sven3000 11 Dec
Saw 'Thief and the Cobbler' and Richard Williams tonight. Awe inspiring animation and designs. http://instagram.com/p/hxkZcQRjB4/


Mentions of The Thief from around the web:
http://www.asifa-hollywood.org/the-thie ... -at-ampas/
http://warburtonlabs.blogspot.com/2013/ ... bbler.html
http://www.change.org/petitions/the-wal ... he-cobbler
http://katpurr.wordpress.com/2013/12/11 ... t-in-time/
http://letterboxd.com/ch_eekygirl/film/ ... bbled-cut/
http://kellykilmer.blogspot.com/2013/12 ... ttern.html
http://my.firedoglake.com/kitoconnell/2 ... rcooler-2/
http://ameliafantasiaart.wordpress.com/ ... e-cobbler/
http://smudgeanimation.blogspot.com/201 ... l-for.html
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 4

Postby Laukku » Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:10 am

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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 4

Postby Garrett Gilchrist » Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:13 pm

Here are some Thief and the Cobbler images:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8910ep3655ptva0/0X-5vhqjuE
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 4

Postby Garrett Gilchrist » Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:09 pm

Rag Dolly In The USSR, A Documentary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp9thGwbmiI

Ivy Austin created the role of a boneless rag dolly in a Joe Raposo/William Gibson musical directed by Patricia Birch. The production made history in the Soviet Union in 1986, marking the renewal of cultural relations between our countries. Ivy returned to the U.S. to find herself on the front pages of The Daily News and The Economist, and the subject of many news articles and talk shows. Later that year, "Raggedy Ann" opened in New York at The Nederlander Theatre, where Ivy Austin made her Broadway debut in the title role.

Listen to the songs here:
https://mega.co.nz/#!lEkVmC5K!CjDvX2X_h ... I7TV3Emtgs

With a book by William Gibson (The Miracle Worker), the Raggedy Ann musical "Rag Dolly" reused two (or three) songs from Joe Raposo's work on Richard Williams' 1977 animated film, but was otherwise original with new songs by Raposo. The musical had an unusually dark tone for a children's piece and was much more emotional than the film. It was not a success on Broadway but had a very strong showing in the Soviet Union, in a run intended to foster friendship between the countries. It's unfortunate that the musical doesn't seem to have been performed since ...

http://carrierobbinsdesignageinc.com/regmusical.html
http://www.ioffer.com/i/raggedy-ann-com ... -143014487
http://banilsson.blogspot.com/2012/06/h ... y-ann.html
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 4

Postby Garrett Gilchrist » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:24 pm

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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 4

Postby Garrett Gilchrist » Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:02 pm

Richard Williams is a guest on the Skqigly animation podcast.
http://www.skwigly.co.uk/podcasts/skwig ... odcast-17/
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