The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 4

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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 4

Postby filmfan94 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:16 pm

Despite that listing being labeled a Williams drawing, it looks more like a Calvert drawing (in fact I think it is), so probably not worth pursuing.
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 4

Postby Garrett Gilchrist » Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:14 am

Yes, that's a Calvert era drawing.

Redsam, it is not possible to retrace over low quality VHS footage and get anywhere near Richard Williams quality animation. No one should embarrass themselves by attempting this. It would look like garbage.

Many of Calvert's scenes were inked from the original Richard Williams pencil drawings, on a feature film budget, and still looked like a step down.
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 4

Postby Redsam121 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:58 pm

Garrett Gilchrist wrote:Yes, that's a Calvert era drawing.

Redsam, it is not possible to retrace over low quality VHS footage and get anywhere near Richard Williams quality animation. No one should embarrass themselves by attempting this. It would look like garbage.

Many of Calvert's scenes were inked from the original Richard Williams pencil drawings, on a feature film budget, and still looked like a step down.

I never said retrace over the vhs footage. I said trace over the workprints. for example, https://youtu.be/yZibUpH-AME?t=11m40s
People have already attempted what I'm talking about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWj2A4bsDIE
I've done it before in the past
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 4

Postby Dennis196492 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:00 pm

It would be helpful for newer members to read the thread viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3&start=1610#p8794

As for tracing the pencil tests, Garrett might have just said ''You can't do it'', but it's true, elaborating over it is pointless because if you didn't notice, the fan trace of the scene is wonky, wobbly, the lines are way too thick and it just looks bad

The Thief and the Cobbler Workprint as we have now (and what the author of the video used) is a Bootleg VHS copy, the pencil tests are nowhere near sharp/clear enough to make such a thing possible even when Garrett restored them for the Reccobled Cut, the only reason people have that impression is because the pencil tests in themselves are very clean and beautiful, but once you pause and zoom in it's a blurry mess you can't tell the lines.

I've done a test in the past to confirm my theory, unlike most attempts I went an extra mile for that specific frame and drew it in 4K resolution, very thin lines just like in the movie, I used colors from official cels and even painted a little background, I put it through a video editing software, put film grain on it, blurred it a little and shrunk to 1080p and that is still NOWHERE near how the movie looks because number one: it wasn't filmed digitally, it was filmed on actual film stock and cels, and Number two, even if you have it all gathered, you just can't replicate John Leatherbarrow's cinematography on a computer, it's something that uses film techniques long forgotten.
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 4

Postby Redsam121 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:23 am

Dennis196492 wrote:It would be helpful for newer members to read the thread viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3&start=1610#p8794

As for tracing the pencil tests, Garrett might have just said ''You can't do it'', but it's true, elaborating over it is pointless because if you didn't notice, the fan trace of the scene is wonky, wobbly, the lines are way too thick and it just looks bad

The Thief and the Cobbler Workprint as we have now (and what the author of the video used) is a Bootleg VHS copy, the pencil tests are nowhere near sharp/clear enough to make such a thing possible even when Garrett restored them for the Reccobled Cut, the only reason people have that impression is because the pencil tests in themselves are very clean and beautiful, but once you pause and zoom in it's a blurry mess you can't tell the lines.

I've done a test in the past to confirm my theory, unlike most attempts I went an extra mile for that specific frame and drew it in 4K resolution, very thin lines just like in the movie, I used colors from official cels and even painted a little background, I put it through a video editing software, put film grain on it, blurred it a little and shrunk to 1080p and that is still NOWHERE near how the movie looks because number one: it wasn't filmed digitally, it was filmed on actual film stock and cels, and Number two, even if you have it all gathered, you just can't replicate John Leatherbarrow's cinematography on a computer, it's something that uses film techniques long forgotten.

I still don't agree with it being impossible. Your work is great, what it was missing was that it lack the lighting of cel animation. Back in those days, they would've used a film reel camera to take each shot, so the lighting wouldn't be evenly spread like what you'd see with digital and it also would contain some scratches on the film. That's the key difference with digital and cel. So with your drawing, it should darken around the edges of the screen.
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 4

Postby Garrett Gilchrist » Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:10 am

It is absurd to think that you could get Williams-level animation - or even any kind of acceptable animation - from tracing over a blurry VHS. It is impossible and your "example" proves the point.
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 4

Postby Redsam121 » Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:50 pm

Garrett Gilchrist wrote:It is absurd to think that you could get Williams-level animation - or even any kind of acceptable animation - from tracing over a blurry VHS. It is impossible and your "example" proves the point.

Then how do you explain the giant hands around the crystal ball in the opening of the mark 4 cut. They sure look digitally traced
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 4

Postby filmfan94 » Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:13 pm

Those hands during the prologue were actually drawn by one of the original animators, based on the storyboards; not traced over a blurry VHS.
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 4

Postby Garrett Gilchrist » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:10 am

The hands are not based on blurry VHS of pencil drawings, and are not animated.

They are based on Williams' rough storyboards. Cleaner drawings were needed to be able to do the effects and compositing work necessary for a more complete opening sequence.
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 4

Postby Jules » Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:35 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtRLQHESICk

Read the comments. Image

I REALLY LIKE IT! Grad to use Scheherazade rather than the music from the Miramax Version.


Glad you cropped it to scope. I would've zoomed in some certain things to make the cropping look a bit more proper.


And my favourite ...

The hands may need to be animated. (Just me)


Don't know if I may be misinterpreting this, but is this Airvec guy taking credit for the Recobbled Cut just because he reprocessed the film slightly on his computer?

Lovin' the anti-aliasing on the credits, by the way. :yumeye:
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