The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 4

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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 4

Postby Garrett Gilchrist » Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:24 am

Scanned at 4k by Helge Bernhardt, this is a sample from my own personal 35mm print of the 1977 film Raggedy Ann & Andy: A Musical Adventure. This reel isn't in the best of shape and is missing some footage! Previously we scanned a different print in SD in 2007. Any widescreen transfer of this film you've seen came from us here at The Thief Archive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIP9WiU ... e=youtu.be
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 4

Postby Garrett Gilchrist » Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:45 pm

Some old Roger Rabbit comic books posted here:
http://toontownantics.blogspot.com/

Discussion of The Thief in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBmI_KgSlxQ
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 4

Postby Garrett Gilchrist » Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:57 am

Peter C writes:
Regarding the articles. It'd take a while to remove the digital fingerprinting from the files with the S&S articles, and it would be near-impossible to do so without degrading the image quality, but here's a summary of just about everything that's in them. :
- A very brief reference in an Autumn 1990 article on Charles-Émile Reynaud which briefly mention’s Dick’s appreciation of his work (extremely short, but it’s still interesting to read Dick talk about his inspirations)
- A glowingly positive reference to Dick's segments in Charge of the Light Brigade: “wicked and witty (…), their very success tends to highlight the limitations of the live action sequences."
- An advertisement from a Summer 1959 issue advertising Ford educational films, among them The Story of the Motor Car, with a reference to Dick's previous success with The Little Island as a selling point.
- A short review of A Christmas Carol from its appearance at the Zagreb festival, the reviewer proclaiming that "animation of such skill and richness (…) seems such a shame to present it merely on the TV screen."
- A 1959 review by Dick of Halas & Batchelor's book The Technique of Film Animation, in which he criticises it for being needlessly complicated and lacking humour; as well as the duo's response in a letter column in the subsequent issue.
- High quality scans of Acting with Brushes and Paint, Animation and the Little Island, and Goofy and Babbitt.
- An Autumn 1988 review of Who Framed Roger Rabbit?.
- Very brief period reviews of The Little Island and Raggedy Ann & Andy.

The highlight out of all the findings was an article entitled Cartoons and Commercials, which revealed some very interesting titbits. :

- Dick was scheduled to direct a live-action film in Toronto entitled Flee Seven Ways in the summer of 1963. Much like the equally ill-fated I. Vor Pittfalks, it too was a story about a conman. The film was to be produced by the British outfit Eyeline Films (which, like RWA, specialised in commercials), Kenneth Williams was confirmed for a lead role, and Arthur Kennedy was a possible candidate for co-star.
- Details of another unfinished short entitled Pussy, Pussy : The Story of a Pussycat Called Armstrong. Written by Stan Hayward, who according to the article was still working for the NFBC at the time, the film was to be produced entirely within RWA.

Unfortunately I haven’t got copies of the original magazines they came from, nor do I have any scans that are free from watermarking that identify me as the downloader, but if you want the text of any of these, let me know.


Flee Seven Ways is possibly the 1963ish novel by James Burke, about a corrupt businessman. The title is a Biblical reference about the devil --
http://www.amazon.com/Flee-Seven-Ways-J ... B0000CLXT4
http://www.amazon.com/Flee-Seven-Ways-J ... B0007DKBXQ
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 4

Postby supervehicle » Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:04 pm

Is he referring to Sight & Sound? And is it possible he's talking about articles that I've already shared on here? Could you send me a list?
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 4

Postby Garrett Gilchrist » Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:47 pm

The "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?" You Never Saw
http://youtu.be/E3mmaWgoFhM

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Before Richard Williams directed the animation for Who Framed Roger Rabbit, there was an earlier attempt at Disney, from 1981 to 1983, to adapt Gary K. Wolf's book "Who Censored Roger Rabbit." Some of the scenes here are straight out of the novel. The director was Darrell Van Citters.

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DVD video: John Culhane takes us behind the scenes of the unmade Darrell Van Citters version of Who Framed Roger Rabbit, 1983. With animator Mike Giamo and producer Marc Sturdivant.

http://youtu.be/E3mmaWgoFhM

1983RogerRabbitVanCit60i.mpeg 284.3 MB
https://mega.co.nz/#!pU8HiIob!079breu9M ... Zy7F1INceY

(The Disney Channel, Disney Studio Showcase. Transfer by Helge Bernhardt, restoration by Garrett Gilchrist, from the collection of Pastor Rodriguez.)

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Nearly 200 images from the unmade Darrell Van Citters Roger Rabbit, 1981-1983.

VanCitters-RogerRabbit1983.zip 27.7 MB
http://orangecow.org/thief/vancitters-r ... it1983.zip

Disney 1981-1983. Animators: Mike Giamo, Chris Buck, Mike Gabriel. Paul Reubens as Roger Rabbit. Peter Renaday and Mike Gabriel as Eddie Valiant. Russi Taylor as Jessica. Unknown as Captain Cleaver. Screenwriters Peter Seaman and Jeffrey Price. Producer Mark Sturdivant. Executive Producer(?) Tom Wilhite.

Based on the book "Who Censored Roger Rabbit?" by Gary K. Wolf.

While Roger was a villain in the book, trying to solve his own murder, this Roger is a loveable goofball in white fur and red overalls - a prototype for the final film. Baby Herman is glimpsed only briefly, and Jessica Rabbit appears to be the villain of the piece. Still, this version clearly laid some groundwork for the Zemeckis/Williams production a few years later.


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Marc Sturdivant:

“Roger Rabbit is a live-action picture in which half the cast is made up of animated characters. It is based on the premise that cartoon characters really live. They are not drawn but they exist in this world just like human beings do. Our hero, that’s Roger Rabbit, your basic 6-foot animated rabbit. He’s a second banana on a cartoon series known as the Baby Herman Cartoons. Roger is a lovable, naïve, sincere and goofy type of guy who is always trying to do the right thing but always manages to mess things up.

In our story, which takes place in Hollywood in the 1940s, Roger is framed for the murder of a Hollywood producer and he hires a live=action private detective, a sort of seedy, cynical Humphrey Bogart kind of guy to clear his name. In the course of the story, they come across a number of possible suspects. Among them is Jessica Rabbit, Roger’s wife.

Jessica is a rabbit by marriage only. She’s actually an ambitious young starlet who married Roger to further her career and now that’s she’s been given a part in a film that she’s wanted, she’s cast Roger aside. She doesn’t care for him any more. Roger can’t see that. He’s blindly in love with her. He just doesn’t see Jessica for the cunning and seductive person that she really is.

Then there is Captain Cleaver. Cleaver is the tough cop from downtown. He’s head of the homicide division.”


Valiant (Peter Renaday): “Oh, Cleaver. Sorry I didn’t see you. What’s on your mind?”

Cleaver: (pulling out his gun and poking Valiant) “Get off the Roger Rabbit case. I got the wife pegged as the killer, and I’m an inch away from proving it. You keep poking around you’re liable to screw up my play and that would make me very unhappy.”



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Van Citters:

“She moves in and around him, interacting with Eddie. That’s difficult. Most films stayed away from that. We are going to try to put together a lot of contact between the live and animated characters.”


Jessica (Russi Taylor): (in a breathy, seductive almost girlish voice) “Mr. Valiant, you have beautiful features. So strong and well defined.”

Valiant (Peter Renaday): “Chipped out of granite. That’s me.”

Jessica: (her hair brushing across his face) “You will take my case, won’t you?”

Valiant: “Not a chance.”

Jessica: (very angry and shouting) “What do you mean ‘not a chance’?”


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Van Citters:

“Roger was to be voiced by the then barely known Paul Reubens. Paul had both an excitability and a naïve quality to his voice that we felt was essential to the character’s personality. Despite his firmly established role as Pee Wee Herman, Paul is an excellent voice actor, and gave us exceptional readings.

We patterned his appearance after both Tex Avery and Bob Clampett design sensibilities. For some reason, big noses figure prominently in many of their character designs. This was for us the archetypal cartoon look. We had no interest in a more complex style—the purpose of this simple comic design was to belie Roger’s interior, for our aim was to imbue an outwardly zany character with emotional depth and heart.

I think what initially attracted us to Roger Rabbit was the potential for unique character relationships. At the core, this was a buddy movie, but a buddy movie with a twist. We would be developing a friendship between a live human being and a drawing. To us, there was nothing more challenging or exhilarating than the possibility of successfully pulling this off. Once the live action was filmed, we would be creating the other half of the relationship out of thin air. We saw the picture as essentially a live-action film, some of our stars just happened to be animated. It was our feeling that, in this context, we would create the kind of interest in an animated character that would allow Roger Rabbit to cross over into the adult market, and perhaps allow the movie-going public to see animation as something more than babysitting fodder.

We steered clear of using ‘feature’ characters. They appeared in just one film and were integral to that story. They never had any other roles, and consequently didn’t seem to fit any definition of actor. Characters from short cartoons, on the other hand, usually appeared in many films and in many roles, just as live actors did.

We chose to play against Herman’s appearance with a rather haughty Ronald Colmanesque voice. To make him an elitist actor who resented his typecasting in films and lived, instead, for ‘the theater.’"


The prototype Roger Rabbit appears cheering in the stands in the featurette "Sport Goofy in Soccermania."

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"Some detectives get the Maltese Falcon …"

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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 4

Postby Garrett Gilchrist » Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:26 pm

In two parts - Early 80s documentary where John Culhane takes us behind the scenes at Disney. Watch out for a young Tim Burton and an early incarnation of Roger Rabbit! Transfer by Helge Bernhardt, from the collection of Pastor Rodriguez.

https://www.wetransfer.com/downloads/84 ... 702/d0597d
http://we.tl/PAnjXMBHXa
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 4

Postby Studio Toledo » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:59 pm

Had to re-sign myself back up to post here, but I just like to say it's cool to see more of this footage now!

That "Disney Studio Showcase" was quite a unique series of specials chronicling animation at that point in time, at least the few such ones I can recall as this one my mom taped for me 30 years ago...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDDsp6ifJPk

Someone had to complain at the video quality here but I had to hold back my anger simply out of concern for blowing my cover! This came from a time when nobody thought saving such recordings mattered, let along the likeliness of someone having both a VCR and cable TV (not to mention a subscription to The Disney Channel) was's yet a common fixture in the US. I'm glad I got something out of that. I recall another special they aired that may have brought up Richard Williams' animation at the time as I'm sure they played the Johnson's Cotton Buds ad.
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 4

Postby Garrett Gilchrist » Fri Sep 05, 2014 5:28 am

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME4yxyG ... e=youtu.be

Early unmade version of "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" [Paul Reubens, Darrell Van Citters, Disney 1983]

John Culhane takes us behind the scenes of the unmade Darrell Van Citters version of Who Framed Roger Rabbit, 1983. With animator Mike Giamo and producer Marc Sturdivant.

Disney 1981-1983. Animators: Mike Giamo, Chris Buck, Mike Gabriel. Paul Reubens, known as Pee Wee Herman, plays Roger Rabbit. Peter Renaday and Mike Gabriel as Eddie Valiant. Russi Taylor as Jessica. Unknown as Captain Cleaver. Screenwriters Peter Seaman and Jeffrey Price. Producer Mark Sturdivant.
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Re: The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut Mark 4

Postby Garrett Gilchrist » Fri Sep 05, 2014 6:05 am

Thanks for posting Beyond Tron! That's just fine for a VHS source of that vintage. Audio could use a little work. I notice the unmade Where the Wild Things Are in there!


It's hard to think of anything else but Pee Wee when listening to the prototype Roger Rabbit, but in theory he's a good choice. Maybe a very good choice.

I like the Van Citters animation here in rough form, but it's almost the opposite of the clean, precise "technical" animation of the final film - it's loose with simple character designs. It would have ended up looking a lot like Sports Goofy in Soccermania -- lot of the same people, and the early Roger Rabbit even has a cameo --

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggmVm2ljDuw

They delayed releasing the short for about 4 years and reworked/reanimated a lot of it.

Soccermania was also a sort of dry run for what became Ducktales -- which was then done with a completely different crew -- so Darrell Van Citters was always the bridesmaid, never the bride --
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