200 Motels - Dental Hygiene Edit Version 4

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Re: 200 Motels - The Dental Hygiene Edit

Postby Garrett Gilchrist » Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:01 am

I let Joe from SOTCAA know about this edit, he was very interested. ;)
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Re: 200 Motels - The Dental Hygiene Edit

Postby SirQuacky » Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:35 pm

JosephC? Wow, thanks, :3 It was his in-depth article and a copy of that VHS and horrible Palmer DVD that got me wanting to do something about it, x3
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Re: 200 Motels - The Dental Hygiene Edit

Postby Garrett Gilchrist » Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:17 pm

Yeah, love the SOTCAA. A bunch of us Python researcher type folks have an open chat going on the Facebook, since James Gent is writing a book on the Flying Circus and digging up all sorts of interesting info.
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Re: 200 Motels - The Dental Hygiene Edit

Postby SirQuacky » Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:50 pm

Oh, one thing I forgot to post, a new scene list. For those who want to know the changes.

Part One
0:00:39 Semi-Fraudulent/Direct-From-Hollywood Overture
0:04:37 Interview: What's The Name Of Your Group? (RMR/BFAC)
0:07:35 Mystery Roach
0:10:00 "He's Watching Us!" - The Group Discusses The Group (with PP)
0:12:35 Interview: Dance Of The Rock & Roll Interviewers
0:13:22 "We Don't Need Anyone!" - Forming A Group
0:14:47 Interview: This Won't Take Long
0:16:35 "A Conceptual Briefing" - With Dave
0:19:49 "Who Do You Think You Are?" Says Volman
0:20:24 Centerville
0:22:32 "Don't You Have Any Taste?" - A Groupie Discussion
0:23:47 The Tuna Fish Promenade (LP)
0:26:17 This Town Is A Sealed Tuna Sandwich (reprise) (LP)
0:27:16 The Sealed Tuna Bolero
0:28:59 Lonesome Cowboy Burt
0:33:09 "I Am Known By Many Names" - Says Rance
0:35:16 "I Gotta Write This Down" - Larry Writes A Symphony
0:36:05 "Looks Who's Coming Through The Door!" - The Restaurant Fight Scene
0:37:12 "Show Me Your Little Vest!" - Larry Gooses The Hot Nun
0:37:45 The Pleated Gazelle: The Lad Searches The Night
0:38:16 The Pleated Gazelle: The Girl Wants To Fix Him Some Broth
0:39:27 The Pleated Gazelle: The Girl's Dream and Confession
0:41:21 The Pleated Gazelle: A Nun Suit Painted On Some Old Boxes
0:42:29 "Hello There" - A Quiet Word With Larry
0:44:47 She Painted Up Her Face
0:46:50 Janet's Big Dance Number
0:47:43 Half A Dozen Provocative Squats
0:49:49 Lucy's Seduction Of A Bored Violinist
0:50:58 Shove It Right In

Part Two
0:53:30 "I'm Going To Die" - The Hot Nun Has A Pill Overdose
0:56:54 "I Am Bwana Dik" - A Night At Redneck Eats
0:58:42 What Will This Morning Bring Me This Evening?
1:00:55 Daddy, Daddy, Daddy
1:04:33 "Do You Like My New Car?" - An Outtake (VPRO)
1:06:19 Magic Fingers
1:10:14 "I Could Be A Star Now" - Jeff Visits Don's Lab
1:14:52 Penis Dimension
1:19:30 Bwana Dik - as sung by Rance in Another Outtake (VPRO)
1:20:26 "Your Dick" - A Penile Discussion
1:23:26 "Chunga's Demise" - What Will This Evening Bring Me This Morning?
1:25:52 Mysterioso - Jeff Flips Out
1:26:40 Dental Hygiene Dilemma (with LP)
1:31:52 Does This Kind Of Life Look Interesting To You?
1:33:35 Dental Hygiene Reprise - Jeff Steals The Towels
1:34:35 Strictly Genteel
1:39:33 The Finale
1:44:42 Postlude
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Re: 200 Motels - The Dental Hygiene Edit

Postby SirQuacky » Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:08 pm

Alright, I've noticed even more sync issues, so I ask people to avoid the torrents for now.

If the finale is on beat, suddenly Magic FIngers goes out of whack, and if the Cowboy Burt song is in sync with the video, the "briefing" scene is off by miles.

This all has to do with that pesky frame rate issue, which I will be fixing once I get better tools.

But for now I direct everyone to that somewhat out-of-sync Youtube upload. I don't want anyone wasting a good DL disc!
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Re: 200 Motels - The Dental Hygiene Edit

Postby SirQuacky » Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:40 pm

Took another pass at the audio a couple nights ago, fixed a few stray bass notes, played with the levels, did some light compression where needed, and EQed the hell out of this thing. I'm quite pleased with the sound now, it may not sound like any fancy surround sound mix from today, but it sounds as reasonable as any mono 1971 film soundtrack would sound. I used some bits from the Willy Wonka recent DVD as a reference. A lot of noise reduction in that, but it just about worked. Plus, the bizarre (by today's standards) EQs in that mix were easy enough to replicate, even with how bassy the Motels mix is.

I remember an "edit" of this film appearing on the Bay awhile back called the NTSC Restored Cut or something. Turns out it was nothing more than a heavily contrasted version of the artifacted Laserdisc release, with dubs from the soundtrack album laid over the top. The sad part being these dubs were of the wrong pitch and time due to the nature of the film's recording. The reason I bring this up is to cover a question any Zappa fan reading this might have which is "Why not use the cleared, abeit compressed audio from the soundtrack CD for the film?" The simple answer is, I'd rather listen to a somewhat aged yet nicely mixed version of a song than a clearer yet thinner mix that makes it sound like your listening to an album through a cardboard box. Plus that CD is has huge troubles with reverb, I mean it's just drenched! So that thing is no use apart from a brief section of the Tuna Fish Suite which I OOPSed and EQed like mad to replicate the odd yet filmic sound I'm using overall.

I've been looking up ways to get a better, and consistent rip of the footage off Amazon, (and Netflix now!) and I found an article which mentioned something along the lines of plugging a Roku and EyeTV DVR into an HDTV, but as that goes way outside my budget of $5 and a Wester Bacon Cheeseburger, I'll keep it as 'Plan B', but I'm not ruling it out in case it's the only way, ;)

Anyway, status report is done!
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Re: 200 Motels - The Dental Hygiene Edit

Postby Garrett Gilchrist » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:55 pm

Good luck! Yes, a settop Roku box sounds like it would work, but I understand the budget problems. Got some myself.
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Re: 200 Motels - The Dental Hygiene Edit

Postby SirQuacky » Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:46 pm

Thanks man, I'll make a update in case I buy one/hopefully get it to do what I want, x3

A couple of notes. Listening back through the soundtrack album, the mixing and extreme use of reverb are not the only differences. Some are entirely different takes that wouldn't possible sync up, others are edits, and some are the takes used in the film with extensive overdubbing blotting out the one thing that might've made them useful. At least they're there for reference purposes of some kind.

As an example, the suite "Shove It Right In" begins with a section entitled 'She Painted Up Her Face', the take use on the album is not only a different take, but favors a rather loud organ overdub and gives the entire section a rather different mood. Compare that with the third section 'Half A Dozen Provocative Squats' in which the takes used are quite identical, despite the differences in mixing. Even though it's the same take, the rather feeble stereo effects (brought on from it's source) and the rather loud piano overdub, which is only slightly overpowering in the film, give a very different feel as well.

Even though I listed the sound as 5.1 on the DVD case, the truth is this could only be an original Mono mix unless some tricky and time consuming fakery was done. That does sound exciting to likes of me, but with so little source material to work with that are of the same take, it makes it near impossible. Well maybe a few parts in the film, but not a whole lot.
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Re: 200 Motels - The Dental Hygiene Edit

Postby Garrett Gilchrist » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:36 am

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Re: 200 Motels - The Dental Hygiene Edit

Postby SirQuacky » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:47 pm

Oh cool! The last time I tried checking that page it gave me a 404 many times. Glad to see it's back! :3

Even though I do agree with JC on the aspect ratio, the new transfer on Amazon and Netflix and so on has already been matted to 1.78:1. There's no important detail missing, or at least not a lot. In fact there's a lot more filmic grain in shots and a lot more detail overall. Not HD quality stuff mind you, but the best 576p videotape could look blown-up and matted. But the point is, it's a somewhat new take on the framing of the film.

I chose or choose to matte that a little further to 1.85:1 as I find it a nice compromise between 1.66 and 2.35, my two favorite ratios. Yes, it's not OAR, but I can't stand those folks anyway, xD I prefer to go with IAR (Intended Aspect Ratio), that's really what we should be looking for in home releases, find what the director intended for the shots.

But as the director for this film has gone looney as the article clearly shows, I'm going with a little more of what I want to see, x3

Hence this going from a cleanup thing to the DHE Edit. Not a restoration, but a presentation edit.

But back to the transfer. It's a bit top-heavy, but crops all over the place as there is no real finite answer as to what is supposed to be on the screen. As it wasn't shot with a built-in matte to begin with,the camera operators merely put tape over the monitors or drew black lines on them. Some of the earliest footage shot favors the "fatter" 1.66:1 ratio in composition, but some of the stuff shot on the last day or two like "Daddy, Daddy, Daddy" and the "Strictly Genteel" finale have been composed in a way you could matte it to 2.35:1 and nothing technically important to the image would be lost!

It's surprising, but imagine what could've been done if they had another week, heck it might've been finished, xD The three-strip colours on the new transfer do slip occasionally and give off that "rainbow banding" effect, but it's a much welcome boost in quality over the VHS and LaserDisc releases combined. Not to mention clarity. I oughta post some samples one day, but that's for later, x3
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